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Post by tkaic on Sept 19, 2015 8:23:16 GMT
So, in pursuit of extra credit and in the spirit of letting another Eagle chalk up a win, I was back down at the club this Thursday with my 25pt list as above. This time it was to take on Jan's Legion, a different beast (ho ho) than G's version of the army:
Vayl
Ravagore
Angelius
Legionaries
A little monster
Some sort of cooking pot thing that makes the little monsters
So Jan had the flying thing I'd seen before, but everything else was new. After his run through the salient points of his list my main thoughts were: "Well, I need to kill that pot thing before killing his infantry" and "Aren't I supposed to be the ranged faction? WTF is that Ravagore?!"
Quick dice roll done, I chose to go first, Jan took the side with a forest. This was a much bigger deal than I realised.
Turn 1: Everything runs towards board centre. Except for the things that walk there. Oh the tactical depth of this game. The Angelus (which ignores...well, rules apparently) nips into the forest, becoming effectively invisible, while still having a perfect line of sight for its own actions.
Turn 2: Tom's second mistake, I ran the Centurion again, meaning I couldn't use his *action and activate the Polarity Field. I was closer to the Angelus than I'd thought, so it nipped out and ripped the shield arm off the Centurion with a lucky (?) roll of '1'. Third mistake, I'd pushed the Journeyman Warcaster up to support the Centurion, meaning Jan's burning vomit ranged attack could hit both him and my other jack. The Ravagor fired at the Hammersmith and following another '1' ripped one of its hammers off. Junior also bit the dust, on fire and rotting, also switching off the Centurion. End of Turn 2, both jacks neutered and Arcane Shield gone. Oh dear.
Turn 3: Siege knocks some points of the pot, the gun mages tried and failed a combined range attack (I'd misunderstood the rules again and thought everyone had to take part...curse the flexibility of this game!) while the 'Smith shuffled forward looking sheepish. More burning vomit and flying snakes happened and the Centurion (now down to a mere ARM19 rather than 24 as in the previous turn) was still offline.
Turn 4: A brief shining light was just how good gun mages are against other infantry. Facing up against half a squad of legionaries, my remaining mages gutted 4 of them and then avoided any repercussions. High DEF is a good thing.
Turn 5: The pot had now spawned a few tiny monsters and the game had been over for a while. I think it may have actually gone to Turn 6 before Siege was splatted this time but it was Legion's day from the outset.
Things I learnt:
A Jan who is neither hungover nor hammered doesn't make many mistakes, also Legion are really hard.
That stupid snake with wings is really really hard. Armour Piercing on it is just stupid.
That stupid Ravagore is really really hard. Particuarly as I was quite smug about having Foxhole to ignore blast damage, only for (once again) Legion to just ignore my plans entirely by simply allocating Corrosion/Fire damage to anything under the template rather than actually doing blast damage. Bah!
Against ranged opponents, the Hammersmith is too slow and vulnerable.
I need to get a lot better at hiding models.
I need to get my head around just how disperesed units can be. Jan's legionaries covered half the board and jammed up my entire army while I still have a subconscious 40k-esque 2" rule.
Having completed my pledge with flying colours I will pre-emptively declare that my next one (Hobby this time) will be to assemble the remainder of my army in a box (a unit of Stormguard and a second jack). No painting pledge as such, but with 2 weeks and probably at least one week off gaming I'll hopefully get some colours on things as well.
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Post by alec on Sept 19, 2015 10:48:20 GMT
Ravagore, widely seen as one of the most amazing things in both systems. Annoyingly there is a great paradox with the advice people will give you to fight it. Use the terrain for cover, the stuff eyeless sight doesn't ignore (proper "hard" cover for +4Def) yet WMH people, probably due to the american take on it uses very little scenery. Yep, it's that stupid. Also in the trench you had +4Def as well as that counts as cover, hope you didn't forget!
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Post by tkaic on Sept 19, 2015 12:21:23 GMT
Sadly the foxhole was keeping the gun mages safe, leaving the jack and junior woefully exposed!
Plan is to trot out the battlebox at 35pts, so that's Defender and Avenger rather than the melee jacks. Time to try out a gunline...
Edit/caveat - I've finally hit the curse of PP models, mold lines and I'll fitting parts so the stormguard may be sacked off for a character or two. I really like the idea of Gaston crosse with a Vanguard or two, or Alison Jake's running a charger. Overall, I think my army needs Hunters more than electro infantry!
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Post by tkaic on Sept 27, 2015 12:21:20 GMT
So I managed to get a couple of games in yesterday, sell the Stormguard and pick up a slew of mercs, not a bad little week.
Army composition:
Dropping the Stormguard frees up a total of 9pts, so I was able to use all my new solos. Note that I say 'use', not 'use effectively' or sadly even 'keep alive for more than one turn'. My list comprised Siege (with Squire and an Avenger), a Journeyman with a Defender, gun mages w/UA, Reinholdt,Aiyana and Holt, Rhupert the Piper and Eirys2.
I played two games, firstly against Tom's Feora Menoth, secondly against Rob's Trollbloods.
The first game was over very quickly, no real tactics, Tom overextended and brought Feora and 2 jacks within range of the Avenger. The seismic cannon knocked them all down, Siege popped his Feat and sent a rocket into Feora's face. Reinholdt had already given him a Reload and the second rocket was enough to remove the flame witch with out any real issue. Nice to confirm that the assassination threat at 14" is so good but shame not to actually have done much!
Second game went very badly for me. Trollbloods were entirely new to me, and almost as new to Rob. I threw Eirys forward to start picking off spells and animi. Sensibly I tucked her into a forest, so she'd be invisible from the front and, if Rob wanted to move his ranged threats to counter her, they'd end up in one corner of the board, allowing me to stomp the rest of the army. Sadly I didn't know that Rob's warlock could see through forests. And ignored cover. So the elf got shot in the face.
I'd swapped out Rhupert for Victor Pedrake, a dedicated anti-warbeast solo. I should've thrown him forwards and tied up Rob's beasts in combat as Viktor's DEF (18 vs beasts) is huge and could've let me stall his advance. Sadly I focussed on using his other ability (allowing other units to get boosted damage vs warbeats) on the Defender. One shot doesn't do enough damage and I'd instead stalled my own movement to focus on the guns.
Having squandered a chance to to dominate the objectives (a series of flags across the middle of the board) I could only really try for another assassination. Sadly, warlocks have the ability to just push damage onto beasts and Rob had camped some fury for this purpose. I still got him down to a handful of boxes, but not enough to steal the win.
Having showed my hand, Rob returned the favour and went on his own assassination attempt, equally unsuccesful. The rest of his army, however, went on the rampage and I was left with really only Siege, the Avenger and Squire and Reinholdt (the last two having no offensive capabilities!). The writing was on the wall and the next turn saw an Impaler's spear pin poor old Sege to a wall like an armoured butterfly.
Thoughts
I don't see how Ayana and Holt add much to my list, but the other solos are all solid. This week I'm swapping some Tau for a Lt Caine list, which 'll give me a second caster and a different (although still ranged assassination style) set of tactics to try out.
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Post by tkaic on Oct 5, 2015 19:02:49 GMT
Pledge update - Defender built (with magnets so can also be an Ironclad. I'm still working out how to magnetise the Cyclone's gun arms into place, bit trickier than I'd hoped!) so that's another pass.
My list building options have been dramatically increased after some trades on TWF and a bulk purchase of a load of NIB stuff at about 40% of retail price (yes of, not off). We'd better not get bored of Warmachine is all I can say.
I can now call on a whole roster of casters, jacks and units. At least it takes up less space than my previous boxes of spare parts and space marines!
Warcasters - Lt Caine (drunken gun ninja par excellence); Kara Sloan (sniper extraordinaire); Nemo3 (All the electricity, all the time); Stryker (a generalist with some nice buffs)
Jacks - Chargers, Dynamo (electric guns FTW), Ol Rowdy (a fun, angry combat jack, although expensive for its stats), Lancer
Units - Rangers (great models, less convinced by their in game role), Tempest Blazers (on paper, amazing, really looking forward to trying them out)
I may have also bought a colossal. By accident. No, really. I was on Ebay on my phone and put in a really low bid which didn't seem to be accepted, so I increased it to a (still low) bid. Which again didn't seem to be accepted. Logged in that evening to find that both had in fact been accepted and I was now the proud owner of a budget Stormwall. Which is nice.
So for the next 2 weeks my plan is to use Stryker in a whole load of games, as many as I can fit in really. My current list idea is:
Stryker
-Charger
-Ol Rowdy
-Squire
Max Tempest Blazers
Black 13th
Journeyman Warcaster
-Defender
Simple enough list idea. Stryker has Snipe (extends gun ranges), Arcane Shield (boosts ARM) & Blur (boosts DEF) so will be used to support the rest of the list until his Earthquake spell is required. Alternatively Stryker can dump 3 focus on the Charger which can then put out 2 boosted POW 12 shots. Ol Rowdy is tougher when base to base with him and the pair will act as an anvil for the list. Ol Rowdy is 'just' an Ironclad but comes with extra rules like counter-charge, doesn't need focus to charge/run and can spend focus to attack in the opponent's turn. Yay!
The Blazers (probably recipients of the above spell list) go zipping around taking pot shots at infantry & light jacks while the Black 13th deal with any stealth threats. The Defender/Jnr team sit back and pot shot opponents. A boosted POW 15 shot should cause some issues.
You know, until it's all on fire or being ripped to pieces by blind dragonspawn.
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Post by tkaic on Oct 9, 2015 18:22:08 GMT
Some brief thoughts after 2 games v Menoth. As this update features 2 Toms, consider me pTom and Tom U hereby renamed eTom. Not better, just different.
VS High Reclaimer:
1. Without a way to counter clouds, just give in because...
Long story short, my list is very shooty and, beacuse I didn't pick them up in time, had no Black 13th to counter clouds. eTom screened his army completely. I thought I could send my Tempest Blazers out to force him to split his force and open up some gaps but...
2. The boards are too small to flank armies
Not just because they're smaller boards, full stop, but because the fact that objectives seem to always be arranged very centrally forces you to bunch up. I sent the Blazers round to harass a flank (18" run, 5" free cavalry move...that's a lot of ground). I should have done that twice, but got caught up in shooting and so ended up not really splitting eTom's force, just wheeling it slightly until his infantry (Zealots and some skirmishy types) had hobbled my ponies.
3. Tempest Blazers are ace
So manoueverable, great choice of shots, not entirely made of glass like their dismounted counterparts, the War Ponies are an excellent unit.
VS Sevvy
4. Menoth say no...
At one point, eTom's army was immune to shooting, magic and knockdowns. Some if it was also immune to melee. FFS. So far in 'pTom learns Cygnar' I've been learning what my force can do. I need to start paying attention to what others can do and, more importantly, how to stop them doing what they want to do.
5. Stryker's Feat is there to be used
+5 ARM is great. If you use it. My previous caster, Siege, used his Feat on his turn to kill things. Stryker uses it to stop his opponent killing things in their turn. Big difference and one I didn't appreciate. Much better to use it early and 'waste' it when my opponent focuses on jamming/movement rather than trying to deal damage than holding on to it and realsing that most of my jacks were already in a bad way!
6. Warcasters are a fragile thing...
eTom had this game sewn up but 2 War Ponies and a Defender almost killed his warcaster anyway. The second pony missed its shot...if it hadn't, I'd have chalked up a win. Sad times.
7. Ol Rowdy is fun
He's an angry little thing. Brilliant. Counter charge is great as a way to control your opponent's movement. Amusingly he also semi ignores Sevvy's feat (part of which means no focus can be allocated) as he can charge without focus.
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Post by ken233 on Oct 10, 2015 11:02:01 GMT
Cloud effects are bent. Unless you have an eyeless sight mammoth tbh, then they're largely pointless  I've also come to the realisation that I need to learn more about the other factions, although it's not going well. It's just all so broken! |
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Post by tkaic on Oct 10, 2015 12:34:09 GMT
There is no question to which mammoth smash is not an acceptable answer!
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Post by alec on Oct 10, 2015 15:04:56 GMT
There is no question to which mammoth smash is not an acceptable answer! This is my quote of the day! It does indeed take a while to start to know what stuff does and remember it, possibly why it'd a decent idea to keep the core of your list your same to learn your own stuff too. Even now I forget stuff on the card itself or silly things like I buffed stuff  . |
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Post by tkaic on Oct 17, 2015 8:25:03 GMT
Pledge complete, managed to get 3 games in with Stryker over the past 2 weeks. This Thursday I played vs Circle
Alec was running Krueger the Stormlord, a big unit of druids with UA, one unit of stones with UA, 2 blackclad wayfarers, 2 Warpwolf Stalkers and a Gorax.
He ran through his list and I realised with a sigh that his infantry were immune to lightning (so no Electroleaps for Tom) and generally very high defense. The stones had stealth and the druids seemed to be the Menoth I'd played recently back in woodland garb with reach weapons, immunity to magic and a variety of attacks. Krueger's spell list seemed strong as well.
We played a scenario with a killbox, one objective and one flag each. I won first turn and set up with most of my force fairly central, Blazers on my right flanks and Ol'Rowdy/Stryker on my left in line with my objective. A brief note on the objective, I would use an Arcane Wonder for choice (allows me to cast an upgrade spell for half cost, very useful to cycle Snipe in my army) but couldn't find the card so plumped for a bunker instead.
Turn 1 - Stryker & the journeyman cast their upkeeps and I learn that I cheated last week, you can only have one friendly upkeep spell on a unit, so the mega boosted Blazers were entirely illegal (sorry eTom!). Therefore my boosts were spread out, Blazers gaining Blur, Black 13 getting snipe to boost the range of their templates and Arcane Shield going on Stryker himself. The Black 13 threw a mage storm directly in front of Alec's army and I looked forward to a turn of shooting stuff.
Alec moved everyone forward, created some clouds with his druids and cast Stormwall. Stormwall reduces the range of any ranged attack originating in Krueger's ctrl range by 5". Oh dear. Even worse, if an AOE deviates from a point inside that range, Alec could choose the direction.
Turn 2- All of my guns were now rendered lame. Sigh. With hindsight, I should've been targetting the druids, but instead faffed around during this turn. The Tempest Blazers were now round the back of Alec's army, with the intention of splitting his forces (as I'd meant to do against Tom). Ol Rowdy set up camp in front of my army to counter-charge any threats and Stryker popped his Feat.
Alec afterwards said that he'd intended to get into combat with my army this turn and the Feat use stopped him. Good, I used it right! Instead he pushed forward, initially forgetting about counter charge but I pointed it out rather than twiddling a villainous moustache and splatting a druid. Instead Krueger used the power of his mind to pick Ol Rowdy up and put him back facing my army. So...my hitty jack has been rendered useless for two turns. That...sucks. Further movement shenanigans moved my units away from my flag so Alec could bag a point while one of the Stalkers went and killed some Blazers. Krueger then feat'd, moving all of my army away and reducing its speed significantly.
Turn 3
I attempted to grab the bull by the horns and assassinate Krueger. Stryker dropped all upkeeps, cast Earthquake on a Warpwolf and therefore knocked down everyone within a large AOE, including Krueger. The fully focus stocked Charger was meant to step forward and put a couple of boosted POW12s into the now vulnerable warlock, but couldn't because his advance was blocked by Druids. Who have reach. Which I'd forgotten. Oh dear. Stryker now had no focus and was exposed, my army was in disarray and Stormwall meant no one else was in range of Krueger to shoot him. So I killed the stupid druids and awaited some doom.
Alec brought the doom. It was a good example of how you should try and assassinate...have more than one plan! First he attempted to slam Squire into Stryker to knock him down, but missed. He then used Krueger's big electric spell to zap me a couple of times, toasting Stryker quite nicely. Oh if only I'd been playing an Electro immune warcaster! Alec still had a Stalker in reserve who could've charged Stryker and killed him but the day was done.
Thoughts
Stormwall closed me down hard. I need to come up with a Plan B for this army when the shooting isn't working. Although the jacks aren't combat monsters they are still jacks, and I should've sent them in to try and smash the druids. However, those wouldn't have been easy fights (significant modifier for being in a cloud) adn then his beasts could've charged me. If I'd had the Arcane Wonder I could've theoretically cycled Snipe and played more defensively for a turn or two.
Next two weeks I'm back to hobby...my stated pledge is that I will paint a Charger. Stretch pledge is to paint the whole army, but we'll see how that goes!
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Post by ken233 on Oct 17, 2015 14:17:22 GMT
Nice report  Kreuger is very nasty, good to see you got close even with some mistakes! What does Stryker's feat do? Sounds decent... |
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Post by tkaic on Oct 17, 2015 14:35:13 GMT
+5 arm for everyone friendly in his control range. Nice early game cushion to set up my own charges in theory!
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Post by ken233 on Oct 17, 2015 14:42:41 GMT
Yeah +5 arm is decent! We don't really have anything like that |
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Post by alec on Oct 17, 2015 15:28:39 GMT
That's a great type up of our battle, mind if I steal it for my army diary? You did great with your army the other night, even with both of us being new to casters we were using. Really thought you had it in the bag, humble druids having reach save Krueger So a quick run down: Good deployment, centralised, with fast elements fast enough to still be relevant on the flanks. Good idea to attempt come from behind, made me think how to deal with the threat of that or them attacking from the side. Good use of Ol' Rowdy, without Telekenesis it'd have been a lot tougher to get that point! Be aware though sacrificing an infantry model to get you to move Ol' Rowdy up into a charge range of something tactic could be used against him. If it is must charge look carefully at placement, if it's optional, look before you leap . Feats timing was perfect, had me hold off for a turn on the offensive, allowing you time to take the offensive. Great toolbox on Stryker, had a lot of stuff there to use effectively against my army. Should have gunned for the druids as you saw The counter magic bubble stopped the earthquake, or should have had I remembered Great plan though and if you'd got shot of the leader model with some sniping/ignoring clouds stuff then would have worked well Main drawback, possibly not at this point if you were just looking to accomplish specific learning, was you didn't really think of the scenario. Cygnar apparently love the tolls etc Mercs can bring, maybe look through the mercs you can use to see which ones would be useful now and the future. I think you weren't aggressive enough with the black 13th maybe, especially the ability to put down an aoe to ignore the cluds/concealment the druids had. I'm not really up on Cygnar so sorry that's the limit of advice I can give  . Your army seemed to work well together though, so possibly do minimal changes for at least half a dozen more games, see where you think yourself stuff could be swapped round I have the odd merc kicking around and playign Circle don't use mercs so feel free to ask me to bring stuff to loan you to try out in a game when I'm down, look forward to playing again! |
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Post by tomu on Oct 17, 2015 21:10:37 GMT
Well done pTom. Sounds like you had a good plan for an assassination run, if you'd have remembered the reach think yiu would have gotten him?
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.
. Your army seemed to work well together though, so possibly do minimal changes for at least half a dozen more games, see where you think yourself stuff could be swapped round 