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Post by Eryst on May 18, 2016 12:49:47 GMT
Hi guys,
Thought I'd start a thread on Uboat counters and have two TIE lists for your comment:-
Howlrunner Crackshot Scourge Crackshot Mauler Mithel Crackshot Dark Curse Wampa Black Squadron Crackshot
All shoot before the Uboats and have enough numbers and green dice to eat more than a torpedo each.
Alternatively:
Omega Leader; Com Relay; Juke Gamma Squadron; Homing missiles, Extra Munitiions; Guidance chips; x 2 Academy Pilot x 2
This one has disposable Academy pilot blockers, homing missiles that shoot before the Uboats and an end game finisher.
Both are 100pts. The only drawback is flying a 5 or 6 list ship for a whole tournament. I think both would work against aces and some other lists as well.
Any thoughts or comments?
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Post by simran on May 18, 2016 13:59:18 GMT
With regard to U boats: Omega Leader stops only 1 Uboat from firing with the Target Lock. Surely the 2nd one deletes him with a missile and the TLocked Uboat just fires at something else.
Edit: deleted my rant on Omega Leader in general play.
Dark Curse CAN be targeted by 2ndary weapons requiring a focus. It's on his section of the FAQ.
As an aside, I checked the FAQ with regard to autothrusters and auxiliary arc. All it says is that Autothrusters can't be used in arc (no mention of primary).
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Post by Eryst on May 18, 2016 19:42:24 GMT
True about OL, which is why he can jackal around the edges until they are bumped or spent their torpedoes.
Interesting about Dark Curse, I assume that the rerolls and focus from Overclocked R4 still don't work so they are just rolling straight dice with one mod from chips.
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Post by jonob on May 18, 2016 23:39:05 GMT
Would this be amusing?
Captain Kagi -Tactical Jammer -Rebel Captive -Flechette cannon
Omega Leader -Juke -Comm Relay
Omega Ace -Crackshot
Zeta Leader -Crackshot
99pts
The idea is to disrupt the combo missile attacks by making them 'waste' their locks on the shuttle, which is stressing them out. Hiding behind with 5 green dice at long range is Omega Ace and Zeta Leader driving home damage and Omega Leader is her usual annoying self.
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Post by underscore on May 19, 2016 9:40:13 GMT
Well, remember that ordnance doesn't give range 3 bonus agility and Deadeye means they don't need the TLs. I'd say that Jax, Jenson and Palob might be the best 'trickster' types to go for, but then they can always just take the TL anyway and use the torpedoes the old fashioned way.
Still, I think action denial is certainly a way to go - but I still think the best way to do this, same as against Imperial Aces, is to block. So an Omicron Shuttle with Baffle and Tactical Jammer might be a good shout anyway as large base blockers can really mess things up with the right asteroid placement.
Obviously the old favourites, the Prototype pilots, can also do a good number. 3 dice and focus can survive a lot of naked 2 dice turret attacks, even more so if you have the PS2 Green Squadrons with Autothrusters.
Biggs and Stressbot seems to be cropping up a bit as well - maybe upgrading to a Grey is worth it, even.
Part of me wonders if there's going to be room for Dash against them too - he has the big advantage of being able to ignore all the massive asteroids/debris he can bring and maybe arc dodge them now that he can actually use all of his dial and hit pretty hard in return. Not sure what you could run with him, though. Maybe something like:
Dash: Mangler, Outrider, Kanan, Engine Upgrade Grey Squad: TLT, R3-A2, BTL-A4 Tala: Conc Missiles, Guidance Chips
Still doing to be tough, though.
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Post by Eryst on May 19, 2016 10:26:02 GMT
Nice ideas, I like the different approaches from Rebels and Imps.
I'd completely forgotten about Kagi, and while you are right Pete about not needing a TL to fire torps due to Dead Eye, when they use their R4 Agromech they can't TL the ship they are firing at so that stops any further rerolls. So essentially they are rolling four unmodded dice (well one chips). Throw in Sensor Jammer and they can't reroll the eye you just gave them.
Could see the overclocked R4 become more popular.
Edit: apparently this is the same interaction as Fire Control System which specifies the defender only so Kagi's ability doesn't trigger.
Edit: Ninja'd
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Post by underscore on May 19, 2016 10:38:41 GMT
I don't think Kagi works against the Aggromech in the same way he doesn't work against Fire Control System - you have to take a TL on the defender so you're not able to take it on Kagi and his ability doesn't trigger.
From the FAQ: If an enemy ship equipped with Fire-Control System is at range to acquire a target lock on Captain Kagi and attacks a ship other than Captain Kagi, the target lock provided by Fire-Control System must be acquired on the defender, not Captain Kagi. If the enemy also has Weapons Engineer, its second target lock must be acquired on Captain Kagi.
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Post by Eryst on May 19, 2016 10:58:59 GMT
Edit ninja'd
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Post by deathwingmatt on May 19, 2016 18:36:51 GMT
All good comments. I think to deal with uboats you need control/action denial, swarm or a good alpha strike.
If you're wanting to do well at tournaments you'll also need a list that can deal with some of the prevalent Imperial builds (Palp aces, Imperial a-holes etc).
Ideas that could be interesting include Sam's first list, Rebel crack swarm green squad a wings. Multiple z95s with concussion missiles and guidance chips could be interesting as it plays the uboats at their own game. It's also an option that can be fielded in scum or rebel lists.
I've been toying with some Wes Jansen ideas over the last few weeks but couldn't get anything that worked for me. After listening to some 186 podcasts yesterday I had what I hope is a bit of an epiphany. When I return to civilisation I think the list I may try is something along the lines of:
Biggs with R4-D6 and integrated astromech Wes Jansen with Veteran Instincts, R2 astromech and integrated astromech Chopper with auto blaster turret, enhanced scopes, anti pursuit laser and zeb orrelios
Not the most maneurable but Biggs can eat a couple of missiles, as can Chopper. Choppers blocking and Wes ability is there to try and stop the uboats firing their missiles. It comes in at 100pt and I'm sure there's some tweaking with upgrades to be had. Each ship also chucks put a decent number of primary attack dice for a 3 ship build (10 total at range 2 or 3, 13 at range 1).
Against aces Wes can detoken soontir, Vader, omega leader etc, and Chopper has a couple of ways to inflict damage whilst ignoring defence dice. Biggs as usual is annoying and messes with target priority and is there to keep Wes alive.
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